Is Sumner Academy actually bad for KCK Public Schools?

Posted by Nick Sloan on December 14, 2009 - 4:44pm
Tagged in
Printer-friendly versionPrinter-friendly versionSend to friendSend to friend

SumnerAcademy.jpg

Last week, Sumner Academy of Arts and Sciences made headlines here at The Kansas City Kansan and other media outlets by being the only school to be named in U.S. News & World Report's Top 100 list.

It's a great honor and a shining example of what education can be in Kansas City, Kan., and Wyandotte County.

But let me offer just an alternative point of view: Would the Kansas City, Kan., Public Schools District, as a whole, be better without Sumner Academy?

Now, now: I'm not a Washington, Harmon or a graduate from any other rival school of Sumner.

I'm actually a proud graduate of Sumner Academy. Class of 2003, as a matter of fact. I received a high quality education from the school and without it, I probably would not be running The Kansan right now.

However, consider a few points.

Test scores would be dramatically better at the four other high schools in the school district. In some cases, the four other schools in the district can miss AYP in some groups by just a few students. A few.

Those few students are probably attending Sumner Academy, rather than Washington, Wyandotte, Harmon or Schlagle high schools.

Let's make an admittedly apples and oranges sports comparison: Sumner Academy is like the New York Yankees.

The Yankees, because of unlimited resources, have Derek Jeter, C.C. Sabathia, A-Rod, Mariano Rivera, Mark Teixeira and other solid players like Hideki Matsui, Johnny Damon and Nick Swischer.

By having "the best of the brightest" at Sumner Academy, it can be a devastating affect for the other four schools. Take away the 160 on average seniors who graduate from Sumner Academy each year and divide them among the four other high schools.

You would have (again, on average) 40 students with 2.5 GPAs, solid ACT scores and great Kansas assessment scores at each school. Again, this is not a shot at Sumner. It's a great school and any student who wants a challenge should enroll there.

But I would love to see what would happen at the four other schools if Sumner Academy went away.

It's not realistic. I imagine some parents would probably move to Johnson County and some schools in the district would not benefit as much as others.

But back to the Yankees comparison: How much better would baseball be if some of the stars from Boston and New York played in Kansas City, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Florida and San Diego?

Other than Sox and Yanks fans, I imagine most baseball fans would think the sport is better.

Rather than just have one school that was great, how about four really good high schools in the district?

Posted by D Thompson on December 14, 2009 - 5:02pm
The other schools used to be great. When I was in HS, there were several honors graduates at all of those other high schools.

I think the decline in the other schools is the lack of parents' involvement. I have a friend who still teaches at one of the high schools (and he's been teaching since I was in school) and he says on parent teacher conference day, most parents do not show up. Some don't even support their kids and go to the games.
Posted by fred meyer on December 14, 2009 - 5:36pm
I am going to say yes it is bad for the other schools as the test scores most likely suffer from Sumner taking the best a brightest. But I believe we have to think of the children first. The education of the best and brightest definitely is improved with Sumner. That is more important.
Posted by Bruce Schlosser on December 14, 2009 - 5:27pm
I concur with D Thompson that parents are the problem. I have lived in KCK long enough to remember when Sumner Academy began, and have been fortunate to have two children graduate from there. It is an excellent institution.

I imagine that if my kids hadn't qualified (over 20 years ago)to attend Sumner, that I would have considered moving to JoCo or North of the river.

I also remember when the program at Sumner Academy was instituted to being disappointed when the parents of kids at the remaining high schools in KCK didn't demand the same emphasis on quality education at those schools.

It might be pointed out that one of the advantages that Sumner enjoys is that problem students can be removed for disciplinary reasons or for low grades. Most of Sumner's students would get into a lot of trouble with their parents were that their kids to allow that to happen. This is another example of the influence that strong parental support can have on a student and his or her school.

That is not to say that good parents and great students don't exist at the other schools. I know they do, it's
just that Sumner doesn't have to tolerate trouble makers or students who are not interested in learning.
Posted by Nick Sloan on December 14, 2009 - 5:36pm
Great points by everyone, so far.

Again, Sumner is a great school.

But I think some students (and teachers) from other schools are stigmatized by the fact that they aren't Sumner and if the Sumner students would be at the other four schools, the reputations would be much better.

The discipline issue and the fact that students must maintain at least a 2.5 GPA (I think that's still the requirement) make a teacher's job there much easier.
Posted by Eddie B on December 14, 2009 - 6:08pm
No, the KCK public school district would NOT be better off without Sumner. Going to Sumner is considered by many to be a prestigious honor. In my opinion, one of the reasons kids at Sumner excel is simply because they're separated from the rest of the kids in the district. Jane Elliott's "A Class Divided" study from the 60's is a classic example of how individuals tend to perform better after being told that they're superior. (Google it. The video is on YouTube).

If the "best of the brightest" were at the other schools, I think the environment would have a negative effect on them. There are several factors that would stifle their learning IMO. At schools like Wyandotte and Washington, you've got daily fights, disrespectful students, bullies, gangs, drugs, criminal activity, not to mention apathetic teachers. I'm not so naive as to think that some of those things don't exist at Sumner. But at least at Sumner there's far less tolerance for it. Being a Sumner grad myself, I was absolutely terrified at the thought of going anywhere but Sumner Academy.
Posted by Bethanie Brown on December 14, 2009 - 7:34pm
I think the bigger question should be why aren't the other 4 high schools/students/teachers/administrators held up to the same standards/expectations as Sumner Academy. Maybe if they were then all the high schools could be as good as Sumner. I have a child that graduated from Sumner and one that just started this year. And I agree with the previous post, as a parent I don't know where I would send my children to high school. I know that there are still disciplinary issues at Sumner but nowhere to the extent of the other high schools. I think we need to answer the question "Why?" and then come up with some solutions.
Posted by D Thompson on December 14, 2009 - 9:21pm
I'd like to add that Sumner is one of two IB (International Bacholorette) (bad spelling I know) schools in Kansas City, Kansas. The other is Bishop Ward. You have to take a placement test for both schools, and Sumner is by invitation (based on previous academics) and by the placement test.
Sumner and Ward hold kids to a higher standard, and I recall at Ward, Honors meant 3.5 and above. A 3.5 was a B not a C. (A+ = 5.0) So it was tough but I was prepared.
We were taught that it was a privelage to attend these schools (well, I know I was)
Also- the tests do not differ by school- these are Kansas Assessment tests. The same test to every school. The difference is the environment.
And now they need to reduce teachers, so the classes get larger. There's just another issue for these kids.
Posted by Chris Easter on December 14, 2009 - 9:38pm
My sister went to Ward and my other sister went to Sumner. I think they along with Piper are probably the best three schools in Wyandotte. Unforntately Sumner has lowered its standards over the past decade but its still considered one of the best. The problem just isn't the schools it starts at the home. We as a community need to expect our young people to succeed not expect them to fail. All schools should raise the bar. As far as the other schools being better with Sumner kids going there it would improve them but not much. It is better to seperate the kids who want to learn from those who just want to clown around and distract other kids.
Posted by S P on December 15, 2009 - 2:46pm
Wow! I am a firm believer in you get out of it what you put into it. We expect our children to do well and don't accept anything less. My children were not blessed with going to Sumner or Ward. They must attend the other schools in the district. I feel bad for them, because they had "Scholar" programs in the schools where they were separated from the "regular" kids and it was definately working, however, due to budget cuts the program got the boot! Now even more teachers will be cut with this years budget cuts. I already have to practically attend school with my children just to make sure they get the education they deserve, you know the same one the kids at Sumner get, except at the other schools the parents have to stay in constant contact just to make sure discipline problems and lower standards don't interfere. My son has a class where there aren't even enough desks for all the students, let a lone books. However, I know my children will succeed because I will be at the school everytime I have to just to make sure these teachers are doing what they need to and my students are doing what they have to. I didn't get to attend Sumner either, by a few points on that exam and I was devastated, but I made it and I am sure my kids will as well. I can't imagine our district without Sumner though, I know a lot of BRILLIANT people that went there and go there. Some how we must get our state to recognize that our children MUST COME FIRST, so those that can't get into Sumner aren't cheated a good education. I don't see them cutting programs at Sumner.
Posted by Clifton Hostetler on December 15, 2009 - 5:49pm
Instead of placing 10 percent of the of the top high school students into a "magnet" school (i.e. Sumner), I propose that approximately 10 percent of the students who display behavior problems be placed into a "repulsive" school. That way the learning environment would be improved for 90 percent of the students instead of just the top 10 percent as it is now.

For those who question my proposal by saying that the percentage of trouble makers is greater than 10 percent, I say that if bad behavior was rewarded by sending students to the "repulsive" schools, all students would have a strong incentive to behave, and overall student discipline would improve.
Posted by Anita Fox on December 15, 2009 - 6:39pm
Kudos to Sumner!!! I don't know what the answer is for the other schools but I now that my son went to Washington and I was very involved and he graduated 4th in his class in 2001 but didn't know a thing about how to get into college or how to apply for scholarships and neither did I. We talked to his counselor who said sorry don't have time for you I have to worry about keeping the kids who are flunking out in this school. My nephew had a very valid point... the kids who go to Sumner actually want to get and education and want to be in school. So to place them in one of the other schools just might bring them down instead of pick up the school or anyone in it
Posted by Michael Middleton on December 15, 2009 - 9:24pm
I don't think it would do anything to improve the 4 other high schools. Look at the KCMO school district. They have no schools that even come close to Sumner, and their High schools are worse than ours. More than likely what would happen, is that the students who now go to Sumner for the academic challenges and opportunities it offers would be stuck languishing in a school that has to cater to those students who are less academically gifted and have their potential squandered under administrations that do the same old thing year in and year out. The military used to have a similar opinion of Special Forces troops. Commanding officers would complain that elite units would drain their line units of exceptional soldiers and that their units would suffer. Time has sorted things out since then, since not every great soldier necessarily makes a good spec ops soldier, and vice versa. Great schools are not made by great students. Great students are made by good schools. Most students have the potential to achieve academic success. They are made by teachers and administrators that set high standards and won't take no for an answer. I say this based on my experience working in a Marva Collins school in Cincinnati, public schools in Charleston, SC, and the Washington DC school system. and a Youth Wilderness camp in Georgia.

In keeping with the MLB team model, if Sumner is the Yankees,then there's no other reason another school can't be the AZ Diamondbacks, Florida Marlins, and St Louis Cardinals, all of whom won the World Series without the Yankee Bankroll. We should encourage them to compete with Sumner, to become a school where kids compete fiercely to get into, not say the problem is with Sumner for being unfairly excellent. Many players who play for the YAnkees won titles on other teams, and the Yankees don't win the World Series every year just because they have the "best players". It's the same way with any organization.
Posted by Nick Sloan on December 16, 2009 - 12:29am
Great point, Clifton. I think that would be an interesting idea. If the four other schools could do that, I wonder how much it would help. From my experience at Sumner, if you fought or did anything borderline, you were gone. Period.

And again, the baseball comparison was probably a bad one. But since I'm a Royals fan sick of the Yankees winning the World Series, I had to make it.
Posted by S P on December 16, 2009 - 10:04am
As I mentioned before the other schools had "Scholars" programs that you had to apply to in the eighth grade to be accepted, but due to budget cuts the programs were booted. How does Sumner do it with the budget cuts? Are they not effected like the other 4 high schools? I still think Sumner is a wonderful school and I genuinely don't think it would help the other schools if it were gone. The educators need to step up to the plate and make sure our kids our being educated. Behavior was an issue when we were kids, but it wasn't rewarded, we were sent from the room regardless of what was going on. I actually remember students getting "spankings" in the principals office. (Did I just date myself?)LOL
Posted by fred meyer on December 16, 2009 - 10:39am
SP I remember spankings also. I never got one NOT because I was so good but all it took was the Principal showing her paddle to us kids and the word got out about it. You see it had holes drilled in it. I caused pain just by looking at it. If you got sent to the office she would bring it out and show it to you. I saw it a couple of times and didn't want that thing hitting my behind. All the time I only remember one kid getting spanked. I think that was enough to make the rest of us fall in line.

To add something else. My mom knew about the paddle and would tell me that the Principal had permission to whack the heck out of me. That is something that is missing today is parents backing up discipline. I her that from teachers all the time. Parents tend to complain about it more than back it.
Posted by S P on December 16, 2009 - 12:00pm
Well, I never got the spanking, but my brother did and it sure put the fear of God in the rest of us. He's the only one I knew who got a spanking at the school as well.
I agree that parents aren't supportive enough of teachers when it comes to discipline. I have actually been at the school when a parent cussed a faculty member and teacher out. It is unexcusable behavior and our kids think it's okay because they see "adults" doing it.
Posted by Nick Sloan on December 16, 2009 - 1:40pm
A few days later, I regret saying the word "bad" in terms of Sumner Academy and KCK Public Schools. Of course it's not bad.

However, I still would be interested to see how those students would affect test scores at the four other facilities.

Again, knowing teachers from the four other schools, I hear horror stories about how they are one or two students away from making AYP or hitting specific academic achievements.
Posted by S P on December 16, 2009 - 2:56pm
Nick I think this was a great article and sparked some interesting feedback. It doesn't matter how it was worded as there will always be someone to criticize or take it the wrong way.
Posted by D Thompson on December 16, 2009 - 3:52pm
Fred- my parents told my teachers and principals the same thing- we all knew we'd be beat. Parents used to trust authority and not assume the teachers or administrators were "out to get" their kids.

My kids teachers all look at me in shock when I tell them of the rule- one time you're out. If my kid is clowning around and showing ANY disrepect in class, bam send them to principal.
Posted by fred meyer on December 16, 2009 - 4:34pm
What people don't realize is that it is not really the beating that does the job but the kid thinking it will happen. There are other ways to do this if one would like with out spanking but you can't let the kid call your bluff one way ore the other. You must follow though to make it work if you have too. If the kid realizes it is just a show you have lost them. They will call your bluff.

At a local Catholic school we kept getting notice on one of are children. We thought he was a really bad kid because we kept getting messages sent home, so we talked with the school and the reply was he was fine. He was just kind of ornery. They just had a tendency to tell parents that did something about there kids actions when something was wrong, even if it wasn't really that bad. We were told that if parents don't really care they don't get notified unless something is really bad because they knew nothing would be done about it. So at this school if you didn't here from them, your kid was either an Angel or they knew you didn't care. I bet that goes on in other schools also.

Back to the original subject. I really think that Sumner is good. It not only lets the smarter kids excel but it should let the other schools zero in on problems. I bet the other schools aren't doing that. That is one problem with test scores, it tends to make schools dwell on them and not teach the kids. We are all not Einsteins. God loves us all regardless. We all should be given a chance to live up to our best potential. Good grades in advanced math are not always the potential of a student.
Posted by Ken Snyder on February 27, 2010 - 3:47pm
Nick,

It's obvious this poster is doing nothing but SPAMMING -- cut 'em off.

You're doing a great job, was just browsing and saw these.

Take Care,
KS